Honest feedback can be difficult to hear—and valuable to your growth. Leadership coach Michael Kublin shares how a tough assessment changed his career and explores how self-awareness, coaching, and accountability can help you become a more effective leader.
Michael Kublin_mixdown.mp3
Michael Kublin [00:00:00] You have to be as aware as possible to align to what your special skill ability and talent is and we call it magic dust. Align to that and as long as you're doing that, you'll get the most joy and passion out of your position.
Intro/Outro [00:00:13] You're listening to Business Edge, the podcast where professionals looking to excel in the workforce. In each episode, our guests take a deep dive into their personal and professional experiences to give you an edge in the marketplace. This podcast is brought to you by the Commonwealth Leadership Alliance.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:00:27] Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Business Edge podcast. With me today is Nicole Klemp. How are you, Nicole?
Nicole Klemp [00:00:34] I'm good, Chrissy. How're you today?
Chrissy Vasquez [00:00:36] I'm doing well, doing well. Enjoying this beautiful Indy weather that we have before we get our second winter that I know is coming behind. Our guest today, Michael Kublin is in Florida, so he doesn't have to worry about those type of things. So welcome, Michael. We're happy to talk to you today.
Michael Kublin [00:00:51] Well, thank you so much. And today happens to be like one of the worst three days of the year. We've been raining every day and we've had sunshine for about, I think, two years straight and this week.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:01:03] It's going to be a nice break every once in a while, right?
Michael Kublin [00:01:06] It actually is. We don't have to drive anywhere.
Nicole Klemp [00:01:10] I was there last week and it didn't rain once and I thought how lucky is this like a whole week with not even a Not even a Florida shower. It was great.
Michael Kublin [00:01:17] Well, we made up for it this week. It hasn't stopped in three days.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:01:22] Oh, well, Mike, we're gonna let Nicole read about your bio and then we'll get started.
Nicole Klemp [00:01:26] So we're so excited to have Mike with us today. He's the founder and president of PeopleTek, a leadership coaching and development company specializing in helping leaders, teams, and organizations learn, grow, and transform their talent. Mike is a master certified coach through the MECO Institute, a member of the Society of Human Resource Management and the ACEC Association of Corporate Executive Coaches. Mike received his undergraduate degree from the University of Florida and an MBA from Nova Southeastern University. He's the author of multiple books, including 12 Steps for Courageous Leadership and The Leadership Journey. Mike, we're so happy to have you with us today.
Michael Kublin [00:02:01] I'm so happy to be here with you and sharing and thank you so much for inviting me.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:02:07] Absolutely. So let's jump right in. You spent 16 years of your career in technology. So talk to us a little bit about what that was like and really what inspired you to make that industry change into leadership and coaching.
Michael Kublin [00:02:21] Such a great question. I graduated as Nicole said from the University of Florida in a long time ago. But I was offered a job and at that time I just wanted to get a job. My whole thing is get a job, get moving. And it was a great company because I ended up working for Ross Perot at Electronic Data Systems and that was an honor to me to work for that company at that time and the experience that I got, even though I may have made it in a rushed decision just to earn a living, I ended learning quite a lot how to set up data centers for information technology professionals and I was able to start my career at a place that taught process discipline. Really learning a lot about the information technology industry and they were at the forefront of really helping people be the best that they could be. And I ended up leaving there and going to American Express and financial services industry and also in IT, but I always wanted to get into sales. That was my big thing, get into the sales and get into marketing. And I was able to do that in American Express. And then about three years in, somebody said, Mike, "Can you come back into IT and help IT people be people-oriented?" Okay, I said, what do you mean be people oriented? And he said, well, IT people are great. They're usually engineers and really geniuses in terms of how they show up in terms their technical skills, but their people skills, we really need a process to help us get more closer to the customers. And at that time, large IBM mainframes were being kind of, they were there and they still run to even today, but it was getting to be more distributed oriented and they wanted the IT people to come out from behind the terminals, get to meet the customers, get their requirements clear, build a better relationship and things like that. So I said, yeah, let me come. I led a project and just started to do that and started to love it. I was leading a team and I started to get some feedback that, Mike, you're a visionary, you're motivating, you are inspiring, you good with relationships, but you're wishy-washy. You don't hold people accountable to behave you. Yeah, kind of punched me hard in the stomach.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:04:39] Not what I was expecting you to say.
Michael Kublin [00:04:41] Yeah, it punched me hard. I didn't know what to do with it. So I ended up finding someone who specialized working with doctors and nurses and hospitals. I said, can we do the same thing with IT people? She came in and helped me to learn some processes that I was so passionate about I got certified in them and I ended up transferring locations from Florida to actually Arizona, leading a quality team out there and on the side I started a tech I started a company not tech but working with technology people on developing leadership skills and i felt that that was really my passion and where I really wanted to take my career ended up jumping out of Corporate America in the 90s and starting PeopleTek and the goal at time is to work with people in technologies. A buddy of mine said make it a T.E.K. And I did. However, we work with, primarily with technology engineers and experts in the, we work with all kinds of companies and he was right to have that chain. But our primary customer emerging leaders in the information technology space. And so I really believe that everything happens for a reason. It was so awesome to make that shift. And working where I've been very blessed to work with the people that I love and they take to it. Most of the engineers that go through our processes or read our books or do go into coaching really, really do want to do great in that area. But their main bent is how do they wire up things and how do they make sure that things work and the world works in a good way from a technology perspective and their whole mindset is now connected to their people set. So they feel so much better about that.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:06:35] Oh, I love that. I know several people in my career that could have benefited from that connector from you. So thank you for sharing that. So how did you know you were ready to leave a secure corporate job and move into I'm going to open my own company?
Michael Kublin [00:06:51] Well, that is a great question. I don't know if you're ever ready 100% because you know you have a security of what is perceived security security is really an illusion to some degree there there is some reality to it and You have this perceived set of security, oh my gosh, but every two weeks, you're really even when you're checkered. So, you know, no matter how much company loves you or says they love you, and they do, they do the best to develop culture and develop people and to put in the right processes to cultivate engagement and things. But at the end of the day, it's up to each of us to live the career that we want to live. And I don't think you're ever ready. I jumped out probably, you know, recklessly, at some point. I had people tell me that that was my passion, but at the end of the day, they also told me that it was my mistress that I was so dedicated to my company and to cultivating leaders and future leaders that I did it. I had the courage to do it. I work with a lot of leaders that face this situation. Some stay in, some don't. There's no wrong answer. Just know when you're doing it, you have to be as aware as possible to align to what your special skill ability and talent is, and we call it magic dust or whatever you call it, secret sauce. But at the end of the day, align to that, and as long as you're doin' that, you'll get the most joy and passion out of your position.
Nicole Klemp [00:08:26] Oh, that's great.
Michael Kublin [00:08:27] And I did it. And you're never ready. So you know, you just just gotta do it and have faith.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:08:32] I love that reminder of you're never ready. There's something floating around the internet right now that shows me, you know, I'm not ready yet. And it's somebody that's obviously in their early 20s. And then there's somebody in their 70s, I'm not ready yet, and it's like, you're never ready, you just have to make the leap. So thanks for that reminder.
Nicole Klemp [00:08:48] Yeah. And I love that bit about its perceived security because we've seen, I mean, even in tech, which was always where the hot jobs were, people are getting laid off and you're never secure anywhere. If you are passionate about something, taking that leap just might be the best thing.
Michael Kublin [00:09:08] I think so. And you know, if you live by faith, then you live by a vision and a mission and goals and a bigger purpose, you will align to that. And no matter what happens, you'll figure out how to show up for that circumstance. And you'll be facing other decisions as you go through, you know your career. So you need to know what what your values are and how to align to them and to live by them.
Nicole Klemp [00:09:34] So Mike, it's been about 27 years since you started your business, is that right?
Michael Kublin [00:09:40] I started PeopleTek in 1996. But prior to that, I had a luckily had a great boss, I approached him. He and well, I hadn't written in my in my development plan that I was going to start my own company or you can't write that in there. And that's crazy. You can't write you're leaving the company. And so eventually he said, you know what, you can leave it in there. We might as well share with everybody. And he allowed me to go part time first and then jump off.
Nicole Klemp [00:10:08] Oh, that's great. Oh wow.
Michael Kublin [00:10:09] Which is a great transition. They converted my salary. He was, believe it or not, Jimmy Kimmell's father. You know, Jimmy Kimmell on TV.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:10:17] Oh, wow. No way. That's so cool.
Michael Kublin [00:10:19] His father was my boss at the time. And I was very blessed to have him as a boss because he had already seen someone who lived their passion and he knew that it's okay to do that. And he was a little nervous for me, but at the end of the day, he allowed that to happen. And so that's why I made the transition. But, you know, and then eventually that stopped, which brings up all kinds of fears, all kinds of insecurities that all people need to face. So, you know I encourage anybody listening to face those fears, go through it. Obviously, don't be reckless. But at the end of day, you're going to have to go through it to live what you really want to live.
Nicole Klemp [00:10:56] Well, and over, you know, those nearly three decades, you've probably seen a lot of change just in the industries that you work in. Can you tell us a little bit about kind of different shifts you've seen in business and in leadership?
Michael Kublin [00:11:10] Oh, definitely. Obviously, over the last years, that more and more people are recognizing that people are such an important asset. I don't like to even call them an asset. There's just the most special thing in a company. So the people have shifted. Leadership is starting to recognize how important it all is. You know, you look at all the diversity, equity and inclusion programs, a lot of that is a little bit out there, but at the end of the day, they have to at least start the process of aligning processes to be properly set up. At some point people will eventually, in my mind, believe that people are the most special thing that work anywhere and set up methods to make sure that they're honored properly. But it must also start with the individual. The individual needs to say, what do I need to do on my own to help myself be the greatest leader than I could be? And that's why organizations like Alpha Kappa Psi and many, you know, other ways of doing it, but at the end of the day, helping your career and your leadership skills on becoming self-aware, equipping yourself with the right tool, and energizing yourself to be the best that you can be is an inside process. And so you have to take ownership and accountability to your and make a decision immediately, the sooner, the better. So you don't waste years and years, but the sooner you're better to read the right book, surround yourself with the right people, start taking the right self reflective classes to learn about what you're most passionate about. And there are tons and tons of tools out there to align to. But the sooner, you start to do those things the better it is.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:12:59] So you talked about self-awareness, which I think is such an important skill for people to have, and I don't think a lot of people develop it until much later in their career, if at all, to be honest. What do you think are some tips for our listeners on how they can really start honing those skills, and how does it start?
Michael Kublin [00:13:15] We're a coaching company, I always say, get a coach. Okay, that's, that's definitely, and then also, I always say attend the leadership journey. But besides those two things, because I want worldwide excellence, the there's many ways to do it. There's no there's no one truth, there's no one way. The one thing that's so important is to have a guide and get feedback about how you're showing up now, because that's one way have input from others, but also input from yourself. What do you like? What are you not like? What do see as your vision, your mission, your goals, your measures? What behaviors are you using to set up for yourself? How are you taking care of yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, relationally? In every regard financially how are you caring for yourself and where is that all coming together. You need to start somewhere and it could be reading certain leadership books okay and what does that trigger within you you could do assessments at PeopleTek we love doing assessments we do five assessments in our approach and we love them because they start to give people insights that they already know, but they're insights that kind of confirm, oh my God, I wasn't crazy. Okay. If you like you, everybody, a lot of people over the years have done Myers-Briggs and the DISC and many of these instruments and we know this info, but we don't know what it means 100%. Start doing some of those. There's a ton of free ones out on the internet. Do them, experience them, start to look at them, get somebody to debrief it with you. Start keeping a journal and keeping that journal about what you like what you don't like I would also say one of the biggest things that helped me over the last several years is a gratitude journal start keeping a gratitude almost immediately. And another thing is to start meditation. When you meditate you start to align to yourself more about who you are more aware of what you're thinking what you feeling what you doing. There's also a process of separating the circumstance with the thought about the circumstance, with the feeling about the thought, with the behavior about the feeling and what result you're getting and being able to break those things down for yourself so that you become so aware, you really realize how that you're the one that's showing up and managing everything but the circumstance and ultimately, you're putting yourself in the best circumstance possible for yourself.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:15:58] You talked about feedback and you mentioned very early on in our conversation about how you got some pretty powerful feedback. That was that gut punch. And I think we're a society, sometimes that's afraid of feedback, right? Like, Oh, I'm a terrible person. If I get feedback, that's not great, or I'm scared of it. I don't want to hear it. So I, you know, go bury my head in the sand and I feel like feedback is can be jet fuel for your next step and where you're going. So I love that you encouraged and shared a story about how feedback sometimes will take the wind out of you and you may have a day of self-loathing and then what do you do with it from there is what matters.
Michael Kublin [00:16:36] Feedback is the most powerful thing, because if I hadn't gotten that in my whole career, we'd have been maybe totally different. But in addition, you can't see yourself, if you remember the Johari window, we have an open self and we have a blind self, we have the hidden self. And to uncover the hidden self, you really need feedback because, and also the blind self, because you don't see it as easily, and they'll see your strengths as well. It also gives you info on your strengths. And the other thing about feedback is you don t have to do anything when you get it. It's a gift to you. The gift is what do you want to do with it? Do you want to do anything? You want to adjust anything? Or maybe you want to live that more, okay? It's again, your journey, and it's just information that you really can use. We just implemented a new 360 tool that measures different areas of the compass. And one of the things that, you know, people are saying is, is, oh, my d, I didn't know that, well why wouldn't you want to know that even if you don't do anything with it?
Chrissy Vasquez [00:17:43] Mm-hmm.
Michael Kublin [00:17:44] So it's a great process of getting feedback for yourself.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:17:48] Yeah, and you're the third person we've talked to today that has talked about gratitude. Yep. And I think, you know, writing gratitude, having gratitude is so important. I do about five gratitude pieces at night before I go to bed. And I think it can be overwhelming for people like, oh, gosh, what am I grateful for? But it could be something as simple as I'm grateful it's rainy today because I don't want to go out and I've had three years of sun. So I'm greatful for the change of pace. You know, I can be sometimes grateful that my dogs came and wanted some love and affection or things like that. What are some examples of your gratitude journal?
Michael Kublin [00:18:23] Oh my God, here's my gratitude journal. You can see it right here.
Nicole Klemp [00:18:27] Oh, it's literally right there.
Michael Kublin [00:18:29] I've got about six years of this. I had attended a program to learn a new tool and I was in with a bunch of Navy SEALs were in the class. And I was a little bit upset at myself because these Navy SEALs scored much better than me. And, I'm a pretty competitive person, right? Oh my God, these Navy SEALs are, what are they doing that I'm not doing? So I met with the coach afterwards and he goes, he goes Mike, you're doing everything right. You've got a great vision, mission, goals, you're not grateful for anything.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:18:57] Ah.
Michael Kublin [00:18:58] He had me start doing a gratitude journal back then. And some of the things to your point, because I actually, we were just talking about this in my team meeting this morning, the gratitude journal, because they all know I keep one guy said, Mike, I looked out the window today and I was so grateful exactly what you said that it's raining because it's filling up my pool and I don't have to use my city water. I usually write about people and family and things that have happened and these I recommend that if you have trouble doing it to get a journal, they're about $5 on Amazon. And this one is just a plain white cover, gratitude journal, I recommend having it because it starts you off with a process of thinking about different things. Sometimes you might write all the same things I write, you know, things about people and events that have happened during the day. I use mine actually as a journal as well because there are different things that you might want to look back on and remember. So many, many things will pop up that you can't even begin to explain, and I call that gratitude and a combination of meditation and being aware of gratitude.
Nicole Klemp [00:20:12] So you know we've been talking a little bit about some of the benefits of having a coach. We talked about feedback and helping with self-awareness. What are some of the other big benefits that you see people getting from coaching and you know for those listening you know other than just calling you what are some ways that someone can find a coach and someone that's right for them?
Michael Kublin [00:20:31] That's a great question, too. All great questions, you guys. You got really on it. I love it. The coach is there as a guide. Now, there are some coaches that believe that you guide the person without giving them any information about certain things that maybe a consultant would give. I look at our coaches and kind of a combination consulting coach, so there's a lot of self exploration components to it. However, we will also because of the years of experience and working in different things, we also give certain recommendations of we think you should look at this and that. So a lot of times people know what they want, but they don't have any process set up for how to go about achieving it. And the coach is there to assist the person with their goals and their objectives and be totally present and totally in the moment to observe things within the person. That can be brought to their attention that they may not have thought about. So there's usually these blind areas in terms of things that have hit our self-esteem or things that we might be afraid of, we're holding back, and generally those things come from a strength. And that strength of ours could be being overused in certain instances and strengths like I'm a very direct person. I always say what I need, but they may not say it in the best way possible and they may not be going to the right people. Then there's other people that are afraid to speak up. They're afraid to look at themselves and the gift that they bring because they either We're done. Understand how special that gift is and how unique it is and where it could fit in and how it could how it's being used now. It's usually being used. Right then and there, and you can show them that it is, but they don't realize how valuable that is. So the coach is there to help them to explore their vision, their mission, their goals, and also to hold them accountable. Just like you go to a gym, you go to the gym to get into shape. I love physical fitness and go at least three times a week. The coach is there to make sure that not only are you doing the exercises properly, but you're digging a little bit deeper within yourself to hold you accountable to what you said you wanted. You said you want to get into shape. You say you want a great career. You say you wanna have a good job. You want to make more money. You wanna be good with your family. You say want to have a free time to do the things you love. Well, the coach is to make sure you get everything you said you want and then hold you accountable to get it.
Nicole Klemp [00:23:37] Yeah, that's a great way to say it. I love that example of the gym, and I know if someone's pushing me to do it, I'm going to work that much harder, whereas if it's just on me, I may slack off a little bit and maybe not hit those goals quite as easily.
Michael Kublin [00:23:52] Well, that's why coaching is so important, because I can tell you, I would, if I didn't have my gym, my friends and my coach, Dwayne, I told him he saved my life. There's, there's several people that have saved my, and he's one of them. And from a physical perspective, and you know, I go to get abused there because I pay to get it. I actually pay to get abused.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:24:19] You're paying for this. Well, that's a great point and a great example. It has been wonderful to talk to you. Before we end, we'd like to ask you our signature question here on the Business Edge. So tell us about a time when your personal values were challenged, what was the situation and how did you handle it?
Michael Kublin [00:24:35] Well, there's been, you know, a lot of times with clients or with back in other work experiences where I had to share what was happening for me that might have been a conflict. With the company's values or their system. So I bring them up. But I want to talk about, you know, and that you just have to have courage to bring those things up and have the discussion with the right people so that you know whether you're in sync or not in sync and not having a secret, you now, that exists. With right now, I'm actually going through a career potential thing and there's potential of alignment with organizations. And you want to make sure that their values and your values align totally and even with that there's also your personal values and one of the things that I personally value is independence and well that leaves a lot of folks out okay because if I make decisions to be with them and I can't have my independence. Then I may be giving up one of my main traits that I value higher than anything. And I'm willing to do it. Take you get something you could be getting another value serve but it's what you really need to explore those things and you have to have a listed so things like you believe in family. You believe in taking time for yourself you believe and physical fitness book you're not. Aligning all those things to time in your day and financial then you're saying one thing and doing another thing you have an out of sync condition. And there's a formula we like to use at PeopleTek, the Vision Mission Goals measures equal behavior. When your behavior is out of sync with your Vision Mission goals, which I've had an occasion, I have my team members know what my values are so that they can tell me like we're going out of a value system right here. We have something going on right now where there was a report that we created that had a little bit of a, not an error, but it was a way in which it may not be as... High of integrity as what we're saying it is so we had to make the changes even if it costs money so we gotta take the money got to invest the change so that we live to the value that we say which is. We're gonna be customer oriented well then that proves that we're we're living in that making sense.
Nicole Klemp [00:27:08] Yeah, it's like a road map for everything that you do, or North Star, you might say.
Michael Kublin [00:27:13] Yeah, I love that. And Nicole, it's a roadmap. Yeah, that roadmap needs to be your guide.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:27:20] Absolutely, yes. Well, thank you. It has been wonderful to speak with you. Yeah
Michael Kublin [00:27:26] Well, I've enjoyed Chrissy and Nicole. I love this process and I just give you such credit for doing it. I love Alpha Kappa Psi all my brothers out there. It's definitely been a life-changing experience being involved with Alpha Kappa Psi and it continues, it will continue.
Chrissy Vasquez [00:27:43] Well, we're glad to have you as a brother.
Intro/Outro [00:27:47] Thanks for listening to Business Edge. If you have questions, comments, or topic suggestions for us, contact us at mail at businessedge.org.